Audio

Transcript

Roxy Etta
What do you think children gain from playing with their parents?

Dad 1
A strong bond knowing that that they’re there, you know, you’re the best dad in the world. So, like, she like you do with everything, like, do I, you know, like, like, just spending, like just being there just know, and just interacting with them and taking that time. That means everything to them because, you know, they they don’t get that, you know from not a lot of children get that from their parents you know. And she realized that you know. And she actually like, Oh, she, it did, it builds a bond, you know, like when they know that there’s anybody that you know, that they can go to, you know, they have their parents.

Roxy Etta
Welcome to Anywhere Dads a podcast from University of Wisconsin Madison Extension with information and tips on how dads in jail can connect with their kids. This podcast combines the voices of dads in jail with experts in child development, parenting and incarceration. I’m your host, Roxy Etta. This episode is about playing and reading. Today, we are joined by Dr. Amy Wagner. Amy, thank you so much for being here today.

Amy Wagner
I’m really happy to be here.

Roxy Etta
Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Amy Wagner
Yeah, sure. So I am the Executive Director of the child development lab here on the University of Wisconsin campus. And this preschool has been in existence for almost 100 years. So that’s really exciting. And my job there is to help with the teaching, research and outreach. So we work with a lot of university students and a lot of people in the community, and just kind of getting the word out there about what positive child development looks like.

Roxy Etta
And I’ve heard a lot and seen a lot about the curriculum’s focus on play in the child development lab. Could you share a little bit about that?

Amy Wagner
Yeah. So I feel like lots of parents come to our tours. And they’re like, Well, yeah, when are you going to teach the kids? And it’s a just a different way of looking at learning is to think about how the kids are learning through play. So our preschool and infant toddler rooms, all have a heavy focus on play, and it’s the center of our curriculum.

Roxy Etta
What do you think the relationship is between play, and reading and development?

Amy Wagner
Yeah, so I feel like the research shows that play actually positively affects brain development. And early reading also does as well. And so these things that kids naturally are attracted to. So playing for one, and then reading books with adults and or by themselves or with peers, all of those things are actually the kinds of experiences that children’s brains are ready for when they’re born and when they’re little. And so play and reading actually has really positive impacts on child development, not only in the current moment, but as the children get older. So there’s a study out right now that shows that reading to babies actually can influence it influence their literary literacy skills in elementary school. So there’s a long lasting effect to things that happen early on. And you might say, well, babies can’t read, why would we even read to babies, but I feel like they’re getting a lot out of that experience of the parent, sitting the child on the lap, and pointing to pictures and a board book, all of those kinds of things are really good for the infant’s brain, as well as the relationship that they’re building with their caregivers. So it’s never too early to play with a child, or to read to a child.

Roxy Etta
Why is play important? This is a big question!

Amy Wagner
It’s a big question. But it’s also at the heart of what I do. It is really, to me the most other than relationships with adults with important adults play, to me is the most important thing that can happen in childhood. So play gives the child an opportunity to work on all areas of development at one time. So they’re not just for example, working on cognitive development, or learning something, they are actually learning in all different areas. So they’re learning with their bodies, they’re learning with their hearts, they’re learning with their brain. And so they’re really motivated to play. And so this motivation is also the beginning of teaching children to be motivated and interested about learning about their world from that point on way out into the, into the academic years. So I feel like it’s also teaching them this motivation and this self regulation to really stick with something they’re interested in and to be creative.

Roxy Etta
So how does play look different if you’re playing with an infant, if you’re a dad playing with your newborn baby, or a few month old baby versus a dad playing with an elementary school or a middle schooler?

Amy Wagner
Sure. So I think what’s important to know about play over time is that one of the most important things as an adult playing with a child that you can do from infancy all the way up to high school is really pay attention to the child’s responses to what is going on in the play. So if you are paying attention to what your child is doing, or how they’re responding to what you just did, you can be really sensitive and develop the play in a way that feels comfortable for your child and will keep them interested in engaged. So across the lifespan, just pay attention to what your kids are doing, pay attention to their emotional responses, and are there new ideas, or things that are making them frustrated or they’re upset about and really gauge everything you do based on what the child does, even if you have an idea in your brain of how you want the play to go, just be flexible, depending on how your child is responding. But um, so that’s just across the board. But for infants, again, people used to say, Oh, they’re just blobs, they don’t really do anything. But from the time a child is born, they actually have the ability to imitate, so even a teeny tiny baby 12 hours old, if you stick your tongue out, they will stick their tongue back at you. And so this is the beginning of that imitation. And that reciprocal kind of interactions that happen in play, even reading books with infants is something that you can do. So you’re not going to sit a child down and read them a novel, obviously, but the kind of board books that are made out of cardboard that they can’t rip the pages out of are the best kind of books, I think, to use with infants, because often they just kind of want to chew on the corner, to be honest, and that’s okay. But you can point out pictures in the book, you don’t even have to read the words in the book, help the child turn the pages on, see what makes the child laugh. And so really working with the infant that way, in preschool play gets a little bit more complicated. So kids are working in preschool really to play with each other and with their siblings, also to have more of this kind of back and forth interaction. And so in that sense, they could develop a plan like, Hey, Dad, let’s build a block tower with these blocks. And let’s have a garage underneath for the cars. So they’re developing these kind of complex ideas in their mind. And as an adult, you can really partner with them to help those ideas come to life. In preschool, they’re also starting to do what’s called dramatic play or imaginative play. And so they’re actually able to start pretending to be someone that they’re not. So for example, the classic example is playing house, but you can pretend to be anything with a kid at any time. So they can be a dragon one minute and a fish the next. And so kids, really, it’s a great opportunity for parents to play with kids, because you don’t really even have to have anything in front of you. You can pretend to be, you know, another dragon in the pond. And you don’t need to have any toys, or any dress up clothes or anything, it just can happen in the imagination. So that burst of imaginative play that happens in preschool is really exciting, and opens up a lot of possibilities. But once they get to school age, a lot of their play is more structured. And so the play has either rules like Okay, let’s go play basketball. And we all know what the rules are for that game. Um, but I also feel like even though developmentally there, that’s kind of where they’re at. There are still times that school aged kids and older, do imaginative play, or they do play that, you know, we would do as a preschooler. And I feel like that’s what’s really great about play is, even as an adult, there are times I find myself doing things that are much easier than adult play, you know, and I feel like it’s those kinds of interactions that we have with each other that really keep us alive and keep the joy in those relationships. And so even though your child is getting more complicated as they grow older, we’re really paying attention to what’s their interest, asking them what they want to play, and meeting them where they’re at is the most important thing.

Dad 1
Just to make memories. Always try to make memories and even in it when we’re just in a house we know we play. You know, I at first. I mean, this there’s times when I’m tired, you know from work, but you know that even when I’m tired from work, like I still get down and play with my daughter you know, and Tea Party and play we’ll play in our Barbie house and all like she she loves that, you know, that she sees even at the busy day, you know, like even if it’s only for a little while, you know, 10-15 minutes and I can still sit down, you know, and play with her ok yeah.

Roxy Etta
When it comes to play, what is the unique contribution that fathers might have?

Amy Wagner
Um, there are gender differences in terms of parents and how they parent. But I also want to just open it up to say just because in general, the research shows that mothers can be more nurturing than fathers doesn’t mean that fathers aren’t nurturing and that those roles can’t be switched. Fathers really have an important role in play because kids know that you guys are a lot of fun. And that you know, if you want to get rough, dad is the place to go. And so, this rough and tumble play basically isn’t, it’s just the kind of play that you lay on the floor and you let your toddler wrestle you down. That would be rough and tumble play, just because it’s called rough and tumble doesn’t mean that the father isn’t being sensitive to the child’s cues. Because rough and tumble play can get too rough and unravel really quickly. And so fathers who are good at rough and tumble play, you know, they’ll take a turn, tickle the child or wrestle them down, and then pause and wait and see how the child responds. If the child likes it, then you can do it again. And if they don’t, then you can back off and either change the play or go do something else. This rough and tumble play does a lot of things for kids, it helps them with what’s called sensory integration, which is their brain, really figuring out how to make sense of all of the things that are going on with their body, what they feel, what they’re touching, that is part of sensory integration. So this rough and tumble play helps their brain develop in that way. It also teaches back and forth interaction. So you take a turn, I take a turn, you take a turn, I take a turn. And there’s a part of self regulation there. So self regulation is really the child’s ability to calm themselves down, to pay attention to understand when for example, this rough and tumble play is getting too exciting. And the child is about to have a meltdown, that’s a good time for the parent to say, Okay, let’s take a break. Right before that point when they completely meltdown and it falls apart. And teaching a child to take a break at that moment is teaching your child how to regulate their emotions and regulate their behavior. And that’s a really important skill that has a great impact on learning and academic achievement later on in life as well as mental health into adulthood.

Dad 2
She, she she’s so joyful. You know, she’s like, I can’t not I can’t it’s hard to say no to her this are not like, even when I’m having a bad day. She brings like, she she makes all that go away. So we always find some type of way to have fun, you know, and she keeps me laughing, and I keep her laughing, you know.

Roxy Etta
Or talking about why reading is important.

Dad 3
Yeah, so I feel like reading is important, especially in the US because so much of our learning that happens in school is done by reading. And so developing those early literacy skills early early on, is really important in terms of long term outcomes for child’s interest, children’s interests in school and in reading, and has impacts on their academic achievement later on in life. So what happens early on really does matter. Even though obviously, your baby can’t read, the expectation is not that an infant can read. But basically, you’re starting out the child with a really positive experience around books. So sitting your baby in your lap, holding them where it’s warm and cozy. And it feels like you’re building your relationship with your child. But you’re also sharing this really cool experience by looking at a book together. So you can your baby might point to pictures when they’re a little bit older, you can name objects, some books have songs in them, you can ask your child questions about what they see once they’re able to speak. So there’s a lot of these pre literacy skills that happen. So part of what you’re teaching them is just to enjoy reading.

Dad 1
The emotional component of early literacy is hugely important on how kids will look at reading and look at books later on in life. So even if you yourself cannot read, you definitely can have these early literacy experiences with your child by just looking at the pictures and talking about what you see. And when they get a little bit older, you can start making up stories to the pictures that are in the books, or asking your child Whoa, look at the firetruck here, like the lights are on, what do you think happens next, and allowing your child to really build that story with you. So there’s a lot of this interaction that happens in this kind of reading, that is really the best kind of reading for kids. That kind of reading where you’re talking about the pictures, and you’re helping your child ask questions or label things or make up stories. It’s that kind of back and forth reading that actually has the best outcomes for children later on in life.

Roxy Etta
But how would you say that reading changes in general over childhood?

Amy Wagner
Yeah, so I feel like right in infancy, like we talked about earlier, reading doesn’t have to be reading the actual words in the board book, it can be talking about the pictures learning to turn pages. Also on learning different sounds. In preschool, it can be pointing out letters, it can be storytelling and singing. So singing a song to your child is actually a literacy activity. So in preschool, you’re really thinking about, again, the child learning to predict what might happen in the story, or the child making the story up with you themselves. And they’re going to then take a little bit more control over the actual reading experience. So they’re going to want to turn the pages themselves, they’re going to want to talk about the pictures. And you can ask them too like if their name starts with an M, you can be like, Oh, I Spy an M on this page. Where is it? So those kinds of those kinds of things can happen in preschool and can really help kids again, if you do it in a fun way, they’re learning that reading is fun. And they’re not even thinking that they’re learning. As they learn to read themselves in school, I think it can be great to take turns reading out loud back and forth books. I’ve also had, a lot of parents have talked about how they’ve read actual chapter books with their child over a period of time. And so this becomes a shared experience over a long period of time where you’re reading Harry Potter together. And either you’re reading, you know, couple pages every night for six months, or you’re reading a page, they’re reading a page, and you’re going back and forth. But what’s cool about that is that, then you have something to talk about when you’re not actually reading.

Roxy Etta
Do you have any ideas on ways to play and read while incarcerated?

Amy Wagner
If you are lucky enough to have your child visit you while you’re incarcerated, just not feeling afraid to play with them or read with to them that you’re going to do it wrong, there’s no wrong way to play or read to your child. Um, so just jump in there and do it. And as long as you’re really looking at your child and seeing how they respond, you’re going to be sensitive and responsive in your interactions. And the two of you are going to build the play routine together. So you don’t actually need any toys or any books to do this. Play this really important play and or pre literacy activities. So right playing peekaboo with a child like an infant or toddler is a great way to play have this back and forth, play with them. And all you need are one or two hands. That’s pretty much it. And so that game is always fun. I feel like you can play I spy with a preschooler and look for things around the room like I spy something blue. The real crux of what’s important here is the relationship you’re building with your child and the positive interactions you’re having. Because then when you get out your child is going to feel connected to you, you’re going to have a place to start in terms of your play, you’re not going to feel like you’re just getting to know your child again for the second time, but you’re going to have this connection and the relationship with your child is going to be so much more easier to build on once you get home.

Dad 3
Even have a program where you can see I can sit and you can read your daughter a book and they record it you can record your voice and you can send it to us so they can read the book along with you. You know hear your voice you know you can leave a message draw a picture, you know decorating the CD the CD case, you know and seeing that, you know, she she loves that just surprise in the mail, you know, she, she she says her mom says she just sits in her room and reads the book, you know, over and over and over.

Amy Wagner
reading with your child is often you know, you’re curled up on the couch, or they bring their blankie with them. And it’s this warm cuddly time that you’re together in a way that your child might not sit that still and cuddle with you any other time. I also think reading can help really bond you bond with your child. Because oftentimes, in a lot of families, reading happens around certain routines. So building this like nighttime, reading, reading routine with your child, even if it’s over the phone, when your child is at home, and you read a quick bedtime story to them, and then they go to sleep. Having those routine times when you’re reading with your child, really become something that your child looks forward to.

Dad 1
And making memories. Yes, that’s a big thing as well. So when they look back, they can actually have something to you know… to be happy about.

Amy Wagner
Keeping your relationship with your child is really so important. And if you do it through playing, or you do it through reading or singing songs, whatever it is, there’s no wrong way to play with your child. There’s no wrong way to read a book. So don’t be afraid that you’re going to mess it up. But just really jump in there. Watch your child’s face so that you’re always being responsive to how they’re doing in the play. And just enjoy yourself like this shouldn’t feel like work, play is joy. And so having these joyful times to respond to your child really helps your kid learn like wow, my daddy really loves to spend time with me. And that is the most important thing that your child can take away from these interactions.

Roxy Etta
Okay, well, great. Thank you so much for being here. Amy. It was a pleasure to have you today.

Amy Wagner
Thank you for having me.

Anywhere Dads is a product of the University of Wisconsin Madison Division of Extension’s Human Development and Relationships Institute and was created by Anne Clarkson, Roxy Etta, Mary Huser, Maggie Kerr, Elizabeth Lexau, Kevin Murphy, and Ciara Walker-Morgan. Music composed, arranged and performed by Doug White, Madison, Wisconsin.